Talk:COMP 3000 Essay 1 2010 Question 3

Group 3

Here's my email I'll add some of the stuff I find soon I'm just saving the question for last. Andrew Bown(abown2@connect.carleton.ca)

I'm not sure if this is totally relevant, oh well. -First time sharing system CTSS (Compatible Time Sharing System) in the 1950s. Created at MIT http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/virtualization/

-achamney@connect.carleton.ca

Here's my contact info (qzhang13@connect.carleton.ca) An article about the mainframe. -Mainframe Migration http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/mainframe/migration.mspx

-Zhangqi 15:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's my contact information, look forward to working with everyone. - Ben Robson (brobson@connect.carleton.ca)

Hey, Here's my contact info, nshires@connect.carleton.ca, I'll have some sources posted by the weekend hopefully

Hey guys i'm not in your group but I found some useful information that could help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer i know we are not suppose to use wiki references but its a good place to start

Okay found an article paper titled called"Mainframe Scalability in the Windows Environment" http://new.cmg.org/proceedings/2003/3023.pdf (required registration to access but is free)~ Andrew (abown2@connect.carleton.ca)sometime friday.

Folks, remember to do your discussions here. Use four tildes to sign your entries, that adds time and date. Email discussions won't count towards your participation grade... Anil 15:43, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay going to break the essay into points paragraphs on the main page which people can choose one paragraph to write. Then after all paragraphs are written we will communally edit it to have a cohesive voice. It is the only way I can viably think of to properly distribute the work. ~Andrew (abown2@connect.carleton.ca) 11:00 am, 10 October 2010.

Link to IBMs info on their mainframes --Lmundt 19:58, 7 October 2010 (UTC) http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/basics/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.zos.zmainframe/zconc_valueofmf.htm

Just made the revelation that when trying to find information on the Windows equivalent to mainframe is refered to as clustering which should help finding information. Here's the wiki article on the technology for an overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Cluster_Server ~ Andrew (abown2@connect.carleton.ca

hey,I agree with Andrew's idea. We should break the essay into several sections and work it together.From my point of view, I think we should focus on how Windows provide the mainframe functionality and the VMware and EMC's storage should be our examples. As listed on the main page, there are many advantages and disadvantages of the mainframe.But where is Windows? I'm confused... In my opinion, the first paragraph can introduct the mainframe (such as the history,features,application,etc) and what mainframe-equivalent functionality Windows support. Then we can use some paragraphs to discuss the functionalities in details. And VMware and EMC's storage solution also can be involved in this part. At last we make a conclusion of the whloe essay. Do you think it's feasible?

--Zhangqi 02:12, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah but the question isn't the pros and cons of each. It is how to get mainframe functionality from a Windows Operating System. How I split up the essay has each paragraph focusing on one aspect of mainframes and how it can be duplicated in windows either with windows tools or 3rd party software. You don't need to go into the history or applications of mainframes since that is not required by the phrasing of the question.

~ Andrew Bown, 11:28 AM, October 11th 2010

Okay, I think I catch your meaning. So now we should do is to edit the content of each paragragh as soon as possible. Time is limited.

--Zhangqi 19:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

If you guys are looking for an authoritative source on how Windows works, I *highly* recommend checking out "Window Internals 4th Edition" or "Windows Internals 5th Edition" by Mark Russinovich and David Solomon.

--3maisons 18:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

OLD VERSION - Here for the time being while optimizing some sections --Dkrutsko 00:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Answer

added introduction points and sections for each paragraph so you guys can edit one paragraph at a time instead of the whole document. If you want to claim a certain paragram just put your name into the section first. ~ Andrew (abown2@connect.carleton.ca) 12:00 10th of October 2010

Introduction

Main Aspects of mainframes:

• redundancy which enables high reliability and security
• high input/output
• backwards-compatibility with legacy software
• support massive throughput
• Systems run constantly so they can be hot upgraded

http://www.exforsys.com/tutorials/mainframe/mainframe-features.html

Linking sentence about how windows can duplicate mainframe functionality.

here's the introduction ~ Abown (11:12 pm, October 12th 2010)
Thanks Abown, just tweaked a couple of the sentences to improve flow Achamney 01:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Mainframes have been always used for large corporations to process thousands of small transactions, but what strengths allow for mainframes to be useful in their purpose. Mainframes are extremely useful in business because they are designed to run without downtime. This is achieved by having tremendous redundancy which allows for mainframes to be extremely reliable. This also gives security when concerning data loss due to downtime. Mainframes can be upgraded without taking the system down to allow for repairs, which further increase reliability. After upgrading a mainframe, however, the software does not change, so they offer the features of backwards compatibility through virtualization; software never needs to be replaced. But computers are only able to run as fast as the data they are receiving so mainframes support high input/output so that the mainframe is always being utilized. To make sure mainframes are utilized to their fullest they support powerful schedulers which ensure the fastest throughput for processing transactions as possible.[1] With so many features how is Windows based system supposed to compete with a mainframe? The fact of the matter is their are features in Windows and software solutions which can duplicate these features in a Windows environment. Be it redundancy, real-time upgrading, virtualization, high input/output or utilizing resources.

History

Before comparing Windows systems and mainframes, the history of what mainframes were used for and where they came from must be understood. The first official mainframe computer was the UNIVAC I. [2] It was designed for the U.S. Census Bureau by J. Presper Eckert and John Mauchly. [3]. By this point in history, there were no personal computers, and the only people who could afford a computer were massive businesses. The main functionality of these mainframes were to calculate company payrolls, sales records, analyze sales performance, and store all company information.
Achamney 01:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

This doesn't seem to actually be pertinent to the question at hand. Question does not have any indication of the need to provide a history. Andrew Bown 11:16, 12 October 2010

I have to agree this doesn't seem relevant to the question. --Dkrutsko 00:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Redundancy

Nshires 04:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC) A large feature of mainframes is their ability for redundancy. Mainframes produce redundancy by using the provider's off-site redundancy faeture. This feature lets the customer move all of their processes and applications onto the providers mainframe while the provider makes repairs on the customers system. Another way that mainframes create redundancy is their use of multi-processors that share the same memory. If one processor dies, the rest of the processors still keep all of the cache. There are multiple ways windows systems can create this redundancy feature that mainframes have. The first way windows systems can create this is by creating a windows cluster server. The cluster uses the same feature of the mainframe's multi-processor system. Another way windows systems can create redundancy is by using virtual machines. VMWare has a feature called Microsoft Cluster Service, which allows users to create a cluster of virtual machines on one physical windows system (or multiple physical machines). The virtual machines set up two different networks. They create a private network for communication in between the virtual machines and then a public network to control I/O services. The virtual machines also share storage to create concurrency so that if one fails, the other still has all of the data.

(this is what I've gotten out of some researching so far, comments and any edits/suggestions if I'm on the right track or not are greatly apreciated :) )

• note: This is the second time I have written this, make sure to save whatever you edit in notepad or whatever first so that you don't lose everything*

link to VMWare's cluster virtualization http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vsphere4/r40/vsp_40_mscs.pdf

Nshires 04:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

hot swapping

Nshires 16:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC) Another useful feature that mainframes have is the ability to hot-swap. Hot-swapping occurs when there is faulty hardware in one of the processors inside the mainframe and technicians are able to swap out this component without the mainframe being turned off or crashing. Hot-swapping is also used when upgrading processors inside the mainframe. With the right software and setup (redundancy) a mainframe is able to upgrade and/or repair their mainframe as they see fit. Using VMWare on a Windows system allows users to hot-add RAM and hot-plug adds a new virtual CPU to the virtualized system. Using these hot-adding and hot-plugging techniques the virtual computer can grow in size to be able to accept loads varying in size. In non-virtual systems, Windows coupled with the program Go-HotSwap can hot-plug CompactPCI components. CompactPCI components allow many different devices to be plugged into their slots (e.g. multiple SATA hard drives) which makes a Windows system with these technologies very modular.

These are the concepts I've been able to figure out so far about hot-swapping/hot-upgrading, feel free to add/edit and what-not!

Sources: http://searchvmware.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid179_gci1367631,00.html http://www.jungo.com/st/hotswap_windows.html Nshires 16:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

backwards-compatibility

Backwards-compatibility means that the newer software version can recognize what the old version write and how it work. It is a relationship between the two versions. If the new components provide all the functionality of the old one, we said that the new component is backwards compatible.In computer mainframe era, many applications are backwards compatible.For example,the code written 20 years ago in IBM System/360 can be run in latest mainframe (like zSeries, System/390 family,System z9,etc).This because that models in mainframe computer provide a combination of special hardware,special microcode and an emulation program to simulate the target system.(The IBM 7080 transistorized computer was backward compatible with all models of the IBM 705 vacuum tube computer.) Sometimes mainframe also need customers to halt the computer and download the emulation program.

In Windows OS,one method to implement backward-compatibility is to add applications.Then the platfrom can be compatible with most softwares from early version.The other method is the Windows Operating Systems usually have various subsystems.The software originally designed for older version or other OSs can be run in the subsystems.Such as Window NT, it has MS-DOS and Win16 subsystems.But Windows 7's backwards-compatibility is not very good.If kernel is different, the OSs can't be compatible with each other.But it doesn't mean that older programs won't run, virtualization will be used to make them run.

--Zhangqi 08:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

ps. I didn't find perfect resources,just these.If you guys think any opinion is not correct,plz edit it or give suggestions :)

http://www.windows7news.com/2008/05/23/windows-7-to-break-backwards-compatibility/

http://computersight.com/computers/mainframe-computers/

Hey, this sounds really good, I'd add an example where you say 'one method to implement backward-compatibility is to add applications'. And I did a little research and I found another way to create backwards compatibility using shims: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_%28computing%29 it pretty much intercepts the calls and changes them so that the old program can run on a new system. Good Work, Nshires 16:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

High input/output

~Andrew Bown (October 13 2:08) I'll write this paragraph.

Massive Throughput

Achamney 01:09, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I can grab this section.